Hello, everybody. It's another Thursday night, and we are back together again. We've got Giselle with us.
Yes. Yeah. We're back with G. She's back again. She's doing a little dance move, which is lovely to see.
And she seems to be firing on all cylinders, which is, again, a real blessing. So grateful to see that energy back. And I know. Fire. Check your out, Gizelle.
Gizelle is back. But when I'm like this, you don't know what's gonna come out of my work my wife's next day. Tester for me. Maybe that's what keeps it interesting. Last week.
Maybe that's what keeps it interesting. Politics last week. No. I think she was. Last week.
A busy woman. Yes. Yes. Last week, I was at a community council meeting. Yes.
She had political hats on. Making a difference for me. Setting the world aright. Yes. I am a community council member.
I'm secretary of the community council. What did you know? And, and God willing, next year, 2026, I might get enough votes to be put in the Holyrood, the Scottish government. That's good. You can make a difference from the inside.
So we'll be praying for you for that. Thank you. Yeah. And they won't know what's hit them if you ever end up there. But hey.
Oh my goodness. I cannot imagine. No. That's really good because I think one day, gee, we'll talk about this. I know we've had it before, but Christians need to participate in politics.
You know? Because I'm tired of people complaining. We don't get this. We don't get that. Muslims don't get this.
Muslims get that. Like, guy, what have you been asking for? What have you fought for? These people know how to campaign for the things that they want. They are very organized.
They have had to fight for their rights for a very long time. They are used to it. They don't sit and wait for things to happen to them. Because sometimes when I see questions like, oh, we're being I'm just like, please. If you really want that thing, you know?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and and then these ones that you're complaining, when you ask them, did you vote?
No. I don't bother voting. Do you know what? I was thinking about that today. I was thinking about that today, particularly about The US.
Because I know people in The US who cannot stand Trump, but did you vote in the last elections? No. So I don't wanna hear it. Exactly. That's what I say to them.
Yeah. Yeah. If you didn't vote, you've not got a right to complain about it. Exactly. Not making a decision is still a decision.
That's what people need to understand. Yeah. Anyway, this is getting off topic. We're gonna do it for the past two years. Just going down down the political route, which is not sitting there.
Yeah. But yes. And you've obviously heard Ngong. She's with us, and she is ready to rumble as it were. And we tonight.
Ring the bell. Ring the bell. Ring the bell. I float like a butterfly. I stay in my cape.
Oh my goodness. I'm just hoping that you this is one of the reasons why you tune in every single week because it's really all funny. This week, we had a question in, a Facebook group, which if you don't know about the Facebook group, please search it up. It's Christian Women in The UK. We're about six and a half thousand members, women.
And as you can imagine, it does get very vocal, very lively at times. But we love it, and and we pray that the spirit and the grace of God is with us at all times. But we had a question. I think it was earlier this week or maybe even today, about loving your enemies or, loving those who hurt you. And I think that's that's a very real question for for a lot of us.
Jesus and in fact, the Bible in different places, in the New Testament tells us about we're to love our enemies. We are, to bless them and pray for those who persecute us, Jesus says at one point. And and sometimes or most times that is incredibly difficult. And I think, when one of our members put this question up, it is it is a real it's it's a real question. It's a sobering one if you are to love the way Jesus wants you to love.
So not the way the world wants you to love, which can oftentimes just be a kind of heart love, a kind of feeling love. So, you know, the way the world tells us to love is, you know, if I feel like it, I'll be nice to you. If I don't feel like it, you can shove off. And that's not the way Jesus tells us to love. Jesus tells us to love regardless of of how we're feeling.
We are to act out our love. You know, because I think the Bible, to my mind anyway, describes love as a verb. It's it's it's a very it's very much a do a do word. It's it's it's an action word if you were to break it down to the definition of the verb that we all learn in primary school. It's an action word.
So it's something you actually do. And so when you are faced with perhaps someone who has hurt you, knowingly or unknowingly sometimes, and sometimes that pain does run deep and can run deep. How do you love that person? How do you, yeah, how do you reconcile that as as a Christian? How do you, act out love to that person?
I think it'll just be good to have a a bit of a conversation and maybe, share ideas and perspectives. And you never know who may be blessed from this and who may pick something up, and that may maybe essentially, maybe even free themselves from from the pain that they're carrying if they're able to to move past that, hurt and pain. So I'll start with you, Ingo. Have you had any experience I'm not gonna say have you been hurt because I'm sure, you know, at some point, we probably all have been. But how have you had any experience?
I think betrayal is probably the one that comes to mind, but, most people will say they felt betrayed. But have you had any sort of hurt that you've sort of felt, do you know what? This is this is like this is this cuts deep. And if so, how have you have you reconciled with a person? And if you have, how have you been able to love that person in the way that Christ calls you to love?
And it's okay if you if you're not at that point yet. You can say, do you know what? Was gonna ask me. I knew you were gonna ask me first. No.
No. It's fine. I think I, yes, like you said, yeah, I've had I've had that in, more than one occasion, to be honest. And, pass me the Kleenex, guys. But to be honest, yeah, I think some the thing with me is this.
Right? Sometimes these things, I actually see them after the fact. So it's only now that I look at some things that happened, like, five years ago. I'm like, oh my goodness. You know?
So I think, one, the time has helped me because I look at it in a very reflective way now because I didn't even realize. I I was kind of I didn't realize you were being offended. Offended at the point you were being offended. No. I want your life.
A different person. Right? I I by nature, I'm quite laid back. And I used to be the kind of person, right, you have to do a lot for me to really think, wow. This is not because I always like to see the best in people.
So it took me a very long time, and I have to say the holy spirit had a lot to do with this, for my eyes to open to things that I used to tolerate, which were just not okay. And then I kind of had this, I don't know, almost like PTSD reaction. Right? Like, you're mad five years after the fact. So I had a a delayed reaction.
And then all the feelings that I should have felt at the time when I I I, you know, went through these things came later. So there was a lot of grief there for me. Right? Because it was almost like me looking at myself like another person. I'm I'm thinking, I cannot believe I went through this.
I'm really feeling this empathy for myself. I'm going through this whole grieving process. And I have to say that I'm trying to think. I cannot really think of any particular case where I have reconciled with somebody, but I have learned to forgive people. Okay.
So you don't think where you say reconcile? No. And I don't think that's necessary because for you to reconcile, there has to be a lot of effort from both sides. Mhmm. You have to you both need to want that thing to work.
Right? Mhmm. Because if I forgive you, I will be reconciling with you on the basis that we've done this thing better. And I'm thinking of a particular, situation where reconciliation is it could have been possible. But and I think this is why I really did the textbook thing.
I kind of went to the person. I was like, x y zed, you know, has changed. Why is this happening? And they just, like, ignored me. Right?
I wrote this very elaborate letter because I ex I expressed myself very well through writing. And, you know, I thought, okay. Let's talk about this. And they just literally didn't wanna talk about it. It's almost like k.
Some people, they think that, you know, to blank something is the best way forward. And then I think they were just hoping that we would carry on. And I think for for many, many years, I put up with it. And then one day, I was like, what is this? Why am I doing this to myself?
Because I felt like our values are very different. I'm the sort of person. If something is alright in a relationship, I wanna talk about it. I don't want to pretend because for me, I know how I'll be feeling, and it's very, very hard for me to put up an act. I always like to really mean what I say to people.
And so, eventually, I got it was I went through this whole grief process because I felt like, why is this happening? You know? And I went through the motions. And, eventually, I was just like, well, you know, this is how you like life. I hope to see life this way.
It's fine. Mhmm. So I was able to just let that go. And it also took, a lot to forgive because I had to look at things that the ways that I've been treated unfairly. And I was not happy about them.
Right? I wasn't I I I went through I don't really know. It was more hurt than anger, and I had to then learn to let go of those things. So I think from the most of the time help you in any of that. Did the Bible help you in in that process?
Some of these things were even before I was born again, so I was kind of just doing it based on my own morality. I wasn't necessarily really I suppose God was there in the background. Right? I know how God feels. But I think God gave me this grace to always want to be you know, I look at it, and I I I feel like I'm even wrong to say it was my morality.
It was really the guidance of the holy spirit. Because I was very big on forgiving people partly because I, you know, I read a lot of psychology, and I knew about the link between forgiveness and just your own peace of mind. Right? So I just really wanted that. So I think a lot of that, but then once I became, you know, a Christian in the right sense of the word, I then began to understand how god sees forgiveness.
And, and I know sometimes you say forgive others because you've been forgiven, but that can be very hard sometimes for me to really make sense of even though it's true. So I I just it it helps me to know that forgiveness is gives me peace, number one. Because and I was thinking about this lately where I thought of something that had happened, and then I thought, you know what? That's in the past. Like, it was almost as if those speeches were, yes, it happened, but it's almost like you can't go back there.
It's not gonna come and catch up with you now. And that gave me incredible peace because to really know that, yes, there's a distance between me and that thing now. Yes. It happened. Yes.
I was very hurt by it, but, you know, that shouldn't really be like, I can distance myself from it. It happened. It's not gonna come and get me. I don't need to go back to it's almost like you've been broken free from that. Don't keep going back there.
Mhmm. So Mhmm. I think for me, one of the things I would be honest, sometimes forgiveness is a supernatural thing because there are some things that are just so hard to to forget. And I think Yeah. For me, the difference now is that I have this relationship with God where I can just go and talk to him and just say, look.
This is hard. Help me. Because Mhmm. I can think of something that happened maybe, like, two years ago, and that was really I was just like, god. If you don't help me with this one Mhmm.
I don't know what I'm gonna do because I'm standing and I'm looking at this situation. I'm not loving it at all, and he did. You know? Mhmm. I should be way madder because it was, you know, people that I was very close to hurt me very, very deeply.
But when I look at it now and the level of forgiveness and this is still an ongoing process. But I think of where I am now, two years on from that, compared to maybe me ten years ago. Because back in the day, I would have just caught you out of my life, blanked you full stop. That's what I did. Mhmm.
You know? Mhmm. I could cancel people. I've done the canceling thing. But to me, that was that was peace of mind for me because I was, like, I feel that I'm very angry at you.
Let me just cut you off, go your way. I can't remember now. I don't necessarily cancel people. You could I could keep my distance just because I feel like you and I will not vibe like that. But, yeah, I'm also in a place where I'm looking to see even if I distance myself from you, I don't wanna think of you in a bad way.
Okay. Yeah. I mean, I I I definitely think time is is one of the common graces that God gives us. I think it's a common grace for for everybody across all sorts of situations because just the passage of time is just it's an immense healer. It puts so much into perspective.
It changes our perspective. It gives us wisdom almost. And, you know, everybody's wiser in hindsight. Sure. You know?
So I think the passage of time is a common grace that God gives us that we perhaps don't even appreciate as much as we perhaps should or could, because sometimes, like you say, when you you you you're in the moment, you're angry, you're frustrated. But when you look back one year, two, three, four years down the line, that anger has simmered down and it sort of dissipated. And then Respect to that incredible thing. Yeah. And and you almost don't even feel the the the pain as raw as you did in the moment.
And I think, you know laugh. Yeah. Yeah. So if you don't if you don't remember anything tonight, remember to give God thanks for time, the passage of time, because that's a common grace that we perhaps take for granted, but really enjoy. But, gee, hurt.
I know you counsel a lot of of people, a lot of women that have gone through various sort of difficulties and various situations. Some sort of I know about, others I don't particularly know because I've seen but what is the common theme that you find with, a, those that are able to love their enemies like Christ wants them to love, and those that are not able to do that? What's what's sort of the common denominator that you find between those two camps? And I suppose if we explore both, then people can identify with which camp they sit in, and perhaps what to do to move to the other camp as it were. Faith in God.
Trusting in God is the big common denominator. Right? You know, I've shared with you, Sedona, that I was really badly hurt back in 2014. And I was so badly hurt that I doubted my salvation. I doubted everything.
I really did. I handled it wrongly. I took on this bravado woman, and I was gonna sort it out. And it lasted for, I don't know, a couple of weeks before I realized, oh, Craig, I haven't prayed about this. And the minute I got on my feet in the floor and prayed about it and left the burden with God, it was lifted from my like, it took me quite a while to for God to work in me.
But I had I forgave the person once once once that night I prayed. I forgave the person that hurt me. I didn't trust them. And I still don't trust. I still don't trust.
So forgiveness and trust is two different things. Sometimes we don't ever forget the hurt because well, a lot of times we do forget the the the the the hurt that was caused to us. Sometimes we don't forget it because sometimes God doesn't want us to forget because he doesn't want us being sideswiped again. We we we do need sometimes to keep a watchful eye out, like, we're told watch the eastern sky. So we're we're we're supposed to watch for the heart coming through.
But really, to me, the big common denominator is that those get over the heart very, very quickly is because they've left everything with God. And those that are still weeks, months, years hurt and being bitter about it. They haven't truly given it all over to God. They really haven't. You think those are the pups?
Yeah. And I love the old analogy about it. You've seen it during this rounds in social media. For you to hold on to hurt is like taking poison and expect somebody else to die. Mhmm.
Mhmm. Because you holding on to that heart, it's only robbing you of your spiritual joy. It's making you sick. It can make you sick spiritually That's so true. Physically.
Yeah. Because so many people physically. Yeah. Yeah. Very, very, very, very much so.
Mhmm. You you you got to be able to believe it was God, get over it. Mhmm. We're we're not the first people to be here. I think that's one of the hardest things Jesus calls us to do, to love your enemies.
It is hard, but it can be done before you get over it. I know. But I think it can't be done. To me, if all the if all all the things that Jesus asked us to do, that's one of the ones that sits. No.
But it's difficult. It's difficult. And I won't lie to you. I think I've had a situation where I tried to pray for this person. Right?
And I felt physical pain in my chest. Okay. It was that hard. The the emotional experience was so intense. I felt it physically because it was just counterintuitive to what I wanted to do.
My flesh did not like, I just wanted to leave it alone and not even think about it. I was like, okay, god. If this is what you say, I'm like, this is painful. I'm like, so you're alright because. Well, you see, that's what I say to people when they say, how do I know we've forgiven someone?
And I ask, well, can you pray for them? Yeah. Well, then you've forgiven them. And if they can't pray for them, then they haven't forgiven them. And sometimes, like, I'm going down the demonic route here.
Satan knows everything about us, and especially those prayers that we speak out audibly. He can hear them, and he can distort them. So something as important as that, that I would be praying for forgiveness of somebody, I would do it as a silent prayer. Because Satan's minions can't read our thoughts. They can't listen to our silent prayers.
Now I'm not saying that it was the enemy that was attacking you now, But, at the same time, it might have been. If you were praying openly They were just out there waiting to get Yoon Gum. They were out there waiting for you. Difficult because you know what? There were times when you're thinking, God, you didn't know what this person did to me.
But you know, like we said, Giselle, one of the funniest things that I Oh, she's frozen. Ever happened to me. This was, like, shortly after God. I I went into like, I'd scheduled time for prayer. Right?
And I was gonna talk about this thing with God, and I had a list. I had it it was literally like going to court and being a plaintiff. Right? And I was like, god, this person did x, y, and said to me, can you believe this? And then I literally heard a voice say, but you two were not exactly you know, it it was funny because God speaks to me in Pidgin English sometimes.
Right? And in Cameroon, we have this expression, yeah, I want to know small. It means, like, you're not exactly better. Yeah. Mhmm.
And I literally heard that. It was like, you're not exactly better because you also let that person sit. And, like, I was in shock. I was like, who That's who I came here for. Support somebody.
Is this about me now? So I'm just in this humorous thing. Right? Actually, yeah. But and then it it just became really humorous.
I just burst out laughing. I was like, okay. Okay. I get it. And that's how I was able to forgive that person.
It I just let go. I was like, okay. Fine. Okay. Well, okay.
We were both wrong. Now I'm gonna repent for both of us. That was fun. But that is the the humor. You know?
Like, people God has a sense of humor. I find God to be hilariously funny. And that was just because I think God knew that if we were going to go through a formal a formal motions of of of forgiveness, it wouldn't work. But the main goal was like, yeah. You're not exactly amazing.
And this has happened to me, like, two or three times Mhmm. Where I try and do something. And it's like the holy spirit. I was there. I was like, man, holy spirit.
You're you're you're you're That doesn't I just think of it and I just hear it. It's almost like a sharp retort. Like, yeah. But you too. I'm just like, woah.
Okay. White. Fine. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, gee, you made a point earlier, and I made a note here to ask you. You said forgiveness, does not mean forgetting. Yeah. But we are we are called to forgive like Christ forgives. And in the Bible, we're told that, our sins are blooded out and they'll be remembered no more.
Which means that they're not they're forgotten. Like God doesn't remember them anymore. What does that how does that work out in in our lives as Christian? If we are to forgive as we have been forgiven and the way God forgives us and he blots out our sins and they they shall be remembered no more. How how does that work out in line of in light of what you said earlier about not forgetting?
Not forgetting? Well, as humans, we a lot of us do have the gift of discernment and the gift of, maybe being a watchman on the tower. And we can see attacks coming a mile off. A lot of us have got blinkers on and don't see that. I really do I really do strongly believe that, some things were not to hold on to it like a crutch to get through life, but as a but as a memory that that happened because I was blind to it, because I trust that person too much, because I let that person in too much, because I did x, y, and zed.
Like, not forgetting is maybe even akin to setting up boundaries. If you're going to restore a relationship with that person that hurt you. You have to set up boundaries. And I don't mean that to not to forget by sitting you Oh, well, that's it, you know, they did x y and zed to me, I forgive them, but I'm never ever going to forget that. I know, I don't mean that it's being wise to the fact that what happened to you.
So that if they or somebody else tries to do the same thing to you, again, see it coming on my own. Right. Okay. See. Because I That's what I mean.
Okay. Because I've I've always sort of taken that. My interpretation is to not act so to not act with that as the basis with your with the offense as the basis of your action or as the foundation of your action. So, my my treatment of somebody that has hurt me should not come from the fact that they've hurt me because that's not the way God deals with me. Yeah.
True. So I am to I am to forget in the sense that the way they've hurt me should not influence how I love them. And I find that very difficult because I think and and it's it's challenging constantly because I think And I see what you mean. Because God doesn't deal with me that way. And I think if if God calls me to be to to act out that way, and I know God doesn't like, he remembers my sin no more.
My sins haven't been forgiven. And I I am constantly sinning, and, you know, part of that is just baffles me how he constantly loves me, and he constantly treats me with mercy and and with grace despite the fact that I fall short every single second of every single day. And for me, that's the real challenge. If if I'm to not let someone's behavior be the foundation out of out of which I act out my love for them, that's the way I find really, really hard because Mhmm. If I'm to forgive you the way the way I've been forgiven, so that, you know, Christ tells us forgive so that my your heavenly father will forgive you as well.
And if we're to forgive in that way, I that's really challenging because I think sometimes we can do a lot of lip service, can't we? We can kinda go, you know, yeah. I forgive you. Yeah. That's right.
Yeah. This. Yeah. That. But you know deep down in your heart that if you were to interact with that person again, that memory, like, it's difficult to not act with that memory as a foundation.
It's difficult to not act do do you know what I mean? Mhmm. Yeah. I think forgiveness is a process, and I think it's something that we forget. You know?
In fact, this is something that I've historically had a problem with in terms of how some Christians and even just society sees forgiveness. Right? I don't believe that just because you say that you've forgiven somebody, it's like done and done. Forgiveness is a process. I think reconciliation is a process.
I think even forgiveness can be a process. Forgiveness is a decision. It's a decision, but what I mean is I just think it's a process because for some people to even arrive at that point, you have to go through certain hoops. I believe that forgiveness comes easier to some people than it does. You know how people have a grace for something?
Because there are some people. Right? And I have an uncle who is like this. My uncle is one of the most you can do whatever to my uncle, and he's just that person. He'll forgive you.
But there are some people, it takes a lot. It's like chipping at a a, a rock. Right? It's slowly, slowly, slowly. I'm like that.
So yes. And so even though I struggle about not acting so for example, if somebody I don't know. Let's say a friend did something to me, right, that was very hurtful. Right? And I decide that, okay.
I love this person. We're going to reconcile. Then I I feel like I'm going to initially, yes, the way that person attack towards me I'm gonna be a bit cautious. This is natural. You know, one of the beautiful things that God does a lot, God teaches us with nature.
Right? So I'm just going to take the human body, for example. If you are sick today, right, your body has, cells that fight illness. And your white blood cells don't just fight illness. Your body creates a memory.
Right? Mhmm. Also, next time when you have that disease, your cells remember, like, wow. This bacteria, they jump on it. So So that's why sometimes if you have an illness, the next time it's milder, and it's the same thing.
So sometimes you you psychologically, you have that kind of memory. And the more you interact with that person but also there is often an onus on the offender that we don't recognize because Yeah. That's true. Say I've hurt you. Right, Sidonie?
And you you've made up your mind that you're going to forgive me. We're gonna move past this, but I keep doing those inconsiderate things to you. I keep triggering you. Right? Just dust my sandals and move on to the next town.
Like, all that. So this is the thing. But if I'm as interested in the reconciliation as you are, I'm going to make the effort to not offend you. If I know that certain words that I use, you don't like, If I know that there are certain things that I do, like, you like me being on time, but I'm always late. And sometimes I might even be late, but let's say I was, like, an hour late, and I come half an hour late.
Even though I'm still late, you might look at it like, okay. You're trying. Right? You're making the effort. So I think when we talk about forgiveness, there is also a level of responsibility on the offender because how soon you rec you recover from a hurt also depends on who you are interacting with if you're going to take the relationship forward.
Okay. But it doesn't the the the the actions of the offender doesn't and shouldn't influence your ability or decision to forgive. We agree on that. Influence it, but if you're going to rebuild a relationship with with with them, it's a realistic thing that you wouldn't. It affects the reconciliation, but not the forgiveness.
Absolutely. Yeah. But and this is why some people forgive people and just say, okay. You know what? I forgive you, but for me to keep loving you, this is gonna have to be from a distance.
Because there are some people who are not gonna change. That's the truth. They are still going to keep telling the lies that got you angry in the first place. They're still going to keep trying to rip you off. You know?
I've seen this before where somebody does a really inconsiderate thing to you, and they haven't even apologized. They just try and let it slide, and then they ring you like, I need money. You're like, what? You know, we haven't even talked about this. So some people have very deep character flaws, and it's really not your responsibility to try and change them or to sit and wait around for them.
You just have to accept that they have their own healing to do, and you stand back and where you are able to come in and help you do it, where you're not. And this is where boundaries come in because sometimes some people will try and take advantage of your your your nature, your your kindness. Mhmm. And sometimes you just have to say no. Not because I'm being mean to you, but sometimes people need to hear no days.
Yeah. Some people need to hear that note to check themselves. Because imagine, like, somebody said, oh, my cousin Sidonie, she's so sweet. Every time I can get something off her, but the day Sidonie says no to them really don't bite me. Oh, no.
But I'm seeing it because you know what? Sometimes, right, it takes a really nice person to be hard on you for you to be like, wow. Even this person that was the soft touch is now hard on me. Okay. I need to really think about my behavior.
Yeah. Do you I think we've got a few comments, or at least a couple there. Can you please read them out for us? I sure will. Sharon says, I had someone upset me fifteen months ago, but this lady had been upsetting me for around twenty years.
And this was the last straw. I still avoid her now. I think I've forgiven, but I don't want any relationship with this lady as wary she may hurt me again. I've been told this lady isn't aware of what she's done wrong due to her learning difficulties. Is it okay to avoid her?
Sharon, I've told you that before. Yes. That is setting boundaries to stop yourself from being possibly being hurt again. And as you say, you had gone for twenty years with this woman upsetting you, offending you, hurting you. And you Wow.
Very graciously ignored it until, you know, the the straw just would hide on the camel's back it broke the camel's back. So, yeah, you're you're fine. Don't don't worry about it darling. A lovely lady in the room is called Natasha. She says forgiveness is a process.
It's an action like love. You have to make the choice to forgive. And sometimes you have to say it daily until it sinks deep into your heart. Well said, Natasha, I was going to come to that when I was a chance to get talking. Because it is it's it it it it is a process.
It really is. And you you don't have to do it alone as born again believers. You don't have to forgive people by yourself because do you know there's, like, 36 scriptures on how to forgive? Yeah. So You got help.
Yep. You've got you've got help big time. You've got You've got God. We forget sometimes. We really do forget.
And when we're when we're hurt, no matter how badly we feel we've been hurt, you gotta think We've not ever been and will never will be hurt the way Jesus was hurt. No. And you know what, Jean? I think for me, right, when people say that, it's almost like a big boulder. That it's it's hard for me to process that.
And sometimes what I for me, what I found that really works is looking at certain instances that Jesus faced that are similar. So for example, something like betrayal. I've been in a situation where somebody whom I trusted, somebody who I thought, wow, this is a friend, hurt me in a way that I never expected. And one of the beautiful things about becoming born again was for me to look at how Jesus dealt with betrayal. I began to think of how I felt when Judas turned on him.
Of course, he knew that it was going to happen, but still Mhmm. You can tell from, you know, the way that story is written. Jesus was heard. When Jesus said to to Judas, what you're going to do, just do it. I I believe that was her talking because it was like, I can't believe I spent all these years with you, and you are really going to do this.
I've given you all the opportunities. You know, you've stolen from me. I've sort of turned a blind eye. And so when I looked at that and I was like, wow. If even Jesus could be betrayed, and he handled this graciously.
I'm just gonna ask you about Jesus Jesus, like, being like, us looking at how it's just that you think if you think every time you you sin, you deserve to be struck dead. Yeah. Like, every time you sin, you deserve to because the bible's clear the wages of sin is death. Mhmm. So every time you sin, you deserve to die.
And so, literally, if you are a a deep rooted sinner like me, that's a a a few hundred times every hour. From the thoughts in my head to what I say, to what I don't say, to what I'm thinking. And that's only from our temper. Tell you. Yeah.
Tell me that though. And then you think if if God can show me for me anyway, I think if God can show me that grace and that mercy by not striking me dead from the minute my brain starts working, which is the minute I wake up from bed, wake up. Yes. And if God can show me the grace and that mercy, surely, I can extend the same grace to people throughout the day. Exactly.
And that helps. That helps. At any point, for me, that is really hard. And I just say to God, help me do this. Because if it's just by that logic, I'm not gonna lie.
For me, it's it's hard. I literally need the help because, yeah, I'm gonna say it. I'm a hypocritical human being. I love to be shown grace, but it's hard for me to show other people grace on my own. It's very hard.
Okay. But then, you know, leading up to to answer the question, how can how can we love those that hurt us? Give us some examples of how we can love those that hurt us because I think daily application is is kinda you know, we we we certainly as admins and as, you know, moderators in the group, we come across various situations of women from abuse to, you know, domestic abuse to sexual abuse, to all sorts in the group that we speak to women about. And even sort of, you know, church abuse is another big thing. You know, lack of, you know, safeguarding in in church spaces and and just, you know, women taken advantage of.
And we deal with we we hear all sorts, and it is just heartbreaking. But how can someone who has been abused or or hurt so deeply and sometimes by the very people that that that are meant to look after them and care for them both pastorally or, you know, family wise or or even just friends. How can we love? Like, what's the application for that? When Jesus says we should love our enemies, and we should love our neighbors as as ourselves, and, you know, we think of the good Samaritan, and the good Samaritan really was the enemy if you look at the tribes and and and the way, you know, it was going the the good Samaritan was the enemy, but, you know, they stepped in and, hence, they became the good Samaritan.
The priest crossed over to the other site. You know, their own fellow tribes person ignored them, but the person who was supposed to be the enemy is the one that helped. So how can we show how can we show love despite hurt that we've been that we've been hurt? And I think that's that's for some of some of our women, that's a real it's a real question. It's a sobering question, but it's something that we know that they they grappling with every day.
Gia, come to you first. Pray for them. Pray for them. Simple. That's it.
Mhmm. Pray pray for them. Not like a recital. Actually, I like Natasha's point actually because Natasha made a point about praying daily until it sinks in. And there's something that you said for rituals.
That's a really good point. And we will probably add this to the list. The power of rituals. Yes. There's something to be said about Yes.
Repetition and ritual and the rituals. That's literally retraining your brain. Yep. Yeah. Very much so.
That was a very good tip, actually, Natasha. I think I'll nick that one if you, if you if you let me, and I'll probably We'll make sure she gives you credit, Natasha. We will. We'll make sure she has the copyright Natasha. I'll just nick it.
Yeah. Definitely. But you I should cancel it. Sharon Sharon might laugh at this or have a giggle at this because she's heard me say this before. When we're asked to love our enemies, love our neighbors, love everyone.
Just love. We're not we're not asked to bring them home and keep them and look after them. No. This is true. That would be hard.
Yep. You're you're not. You can love them from a distance. You don't have to be in their lives again. You can set up those boundaries that spiritual How can you love them from a distance?
What does that look like? Pray for them. When you're praying for someone that is loving them, especially if they've hurt you. And especially our enemies above our lands that that are planning to attack us and planning to do bad things to us and all the rest of when we pray for them, that's us loving them. So if you're plotting revenge in your mind and just waiting for the opportunity to get your own back, then you you haven't really forgiven them.
Oh, it's not loving. No. No. That's not that. That's that's not that's not that's not that's not that I'm thinking about that for anybody at all.
No. No. And you feel that acknowledge it, think it's about repent because you know what? You're just human. Yeah.
Yeah. Mhmm. And if and if anybody is out there that is finding it hard to forgive somebody and you're sitting there by yourself and you're worried you're running your hands and you're plotting in your mind how you're gonna trip this person up and how you're gonna get your own back at them, contact us. Yes, please. Get us on the website or of energy.
Or get us on the or get us on the Facebook group or something like that. Contact us private, like and let either the three of us do a little private group with you or speaking to one of us individually, whatever. Get it off your chest because the only person you're hurting is yourself. That's true. The other person the only the other person's away living their merry life not knowing that you're something.
That's the thing. Because you know what? Bad things don't always happen to people who hurt you. I really like that you said that, Gee, because I remember this guy I know who's a pastor in London. He wrote something really funny on Facebook.
He said something like, god is not going to punish your ex. Okay. And, you know, it was just funny because you know what? Sometimes, what what you can adjust dessert. The guy who broke your heart could end up really very happily married.
So you you need to do it even for yourself. Right? Because like you said, Giza, you could be sitting there cursing, you know, rubbing your hands, being angry, and this guy is out there having a bubble. Right? And maybe he's absolutely ridiculous.
But the next thing you turn on social media, he's got these twins, and he's doing nice videos with his wife. What are you gonna do? So you've got to value yourself and just say, you know what? I have my own life to live. By all means, never think that people and you may think, oh, god.
It's unfair, but, you know, this is how life works. God is and I remember this very clearly. Years ago, I had I I fell out with somebody, and I remembered it not. It wasn't that I was going to punish. Like, that was never going to happen.
Right? But I remember that even when that thought crossed my mind, like, god, this person has hurt me. The one thing I heard very clearly is this is also god's child. You cannot ask a father to hate his child. So I just could never pray and say, God punish this person.
I couldn't because he's also a child to God. Imagine asking a father to to hit their child. It doesn't work. They're not gonna do it. So always remember that God loves that person as much as he loves you.
So he's gonna bless them, but your own blessings depend on whether you wanna come out of that place where you've decided to put yourself. Very hard to do, but, yeah, don't expect God to strike people with thunder for you. Doesn't always happen. Yeah. That's that's a good good point, actually.
Well, mom, we probably forget because sometimes in our heart, we wanna lash out, don't we? But yeah. But thank you, ladies. This seems like it's been a a lovely, wonderful chat. Thanks for all the contributions.
Gee, have I missed out any other comments, or are we up to date? I think Yes. Yeah. There's one. There's one.
Let's hear it. Open open up. Natasha says again, another prayer I often say to God regarding other people who abuse innocent people is this, Lord, please show them your justice. And if it is in your will, show them your mercy. Oh, so is this for the offender or the victim?
To the offender. Yeah. For the offender. Yeah. Which is like me?
It's like me loads of times when I'm praying for the persecuted Christians around the world, but especially the persecutors. Yeah. The persecutors are in darkness. So the prayer she says is, Lord, please show show she often presses regarding other people who abuse innocent people. K.
She prays for the abusers. Lord, please show them your justice. And if it is in your will, show them your mercy. That's part of it. Wonderful prayer.
That really is. That's part of it. Yeah. I'm looking that one again, but I'll give you credit for this one now. Yes.
We will make sure of it, my dear. We will. It's a deep prayer because God's just It is a deep prayer. Yeah. Yeah.
And I love it. It acknowledges God's will in there. Yes. And the thing is, she's absolutely right there in what she's saying about that e prayer that loads of people pray for the victims. But how many people do pray for the persecutors, about the or the abusers?
And even and even their families. Like how many people you will go around to, I don't know, say, I don't know, a rapist's house and blame the father, blame the mother, blame the siblings, blame the wife, blame everybody. So the family needs prayer too. Mhmm. They do.
They do. And often, like you said, see, they really do. Because if you really look at the profile of a lot of these people who commit these horrendous crimes, they often come from a lot of dysfunction, very, very deep dysfunction. Exactly. So Exactly.
Exactly. Send us send us those those comments and prayers. We'll, because I think that'll be a real encouragement for for the women in the group, I think. Mhmm. Even if it is just something where they can copy it and and paste it somewhere where they can have a they're really short and they're really sweet, and I like short, sweet prayers because that means they can be repeat they can be repeated, and that repetition does often help muscle muscle memory to just, sink in.
But thank you, ladies. It's been a wonderful conversation. Yeah. I know we've had a bit of a laugh, but I'm also aware that it's it's it's a very sobering conversation for some people. And I'm also aware that it it touches deep some hurts that we've heard from Sharon runs to twenty years deep.
Yeah. And some pain does go for years and years and years. And so, I hope we've been able to give you a short prayer, encouraged you on, the benefits of repetition, even if it's just a one or two line prayer that you can say often until it sinks in. And if you find you're not at that point yet, that's okay. Again, just the fact that you acknowledge that you're not there yet, that's okay.
Just pray for the grace to get there. And if nothing else from today, just thank God for the passage of time. That is a common grace that we often, often, often forget. And like I say to my kids sometimes, it will look a lot less worse in the morning, and it often does. You know, when they hit the moment and then and it looks like the world is about to crash around them because, you know, their friends are falling out with them.
Like, by tomorrow, it will look a lot less worse. Next week, you won't even remember this happened. And so if you Next year, you're on a different task, you'd have even forgotten them. Let's, let's give God thanks for that. So shall we pray before we say goodnight?
Yeah. Our Lord and our God, we thank you so much first and foremost, for forgiving us. Sinners that are not worthy of your love or your mercy or your grace. Yet you pour all of that out abundantly into us. You invite us to come into a relationship with you.
You offer us the path, for forgiveness and reconciliation to you. You came and paid the price for our sin that we may be able to have a relationship with you. You did all of that for us, Lord, asking nothing in return to that we only believe. That we come to you accepting you as our Messiah and our Saviour, and believing your saving grace. Oh, what love, what wonderful love, it is that you've displayed so openly for us.
And, Lord, we we that are, trying to follow in your footsteps and we're trying to be Christ like and we're trying to to be followers of Christ and be Christians. Give us the ability to extend that same grace and love and forgiveness to those who have hurt us. Lord, we know that this side of heaven will be offended. We know this side of heaven will be hurt. We know this side of heaven.
We will go through storms of life. Sometimes betrayals and upsets. And all sorts Lord. We ask that in those times you would we would fill you close by. We ask that in those times Lord that you would comfort us.
You would give us the wisdom, the strength to forgive, the wisdom to show love but keep ourselves safe. And even if we're not able to keep safe Lord let us always trust that you are looking out for us. Let us always trust Lord that you will leave us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. And that Lord wherever we find ourselves let us trust in your sovereignty and your saving grace and your power to deliver us from any evil that we may find ourselves in. Our heavenly father we pray Lord and we ask that you would help us to love our enemies.
And pray for those who persecute us. Such a difficult prayer. Sounds so easy when he rolls off the tongue so beautifully. But when we actually get to the heart of it, we realize it's such a difficult thing to do. And we know, Lord, that we cannot do it by ourselves because our very human nature and our carnal nature is to lash out and and seek vengeance, but you, Lord, say vengeance is yours.
Yeah. Help us to trust in that promise knowing that ultimately you are the good judge. You will judge evil and good. Help us to trust in your divine justice. Help us to trust that justice will come.
You you will judge, every single one of us for our actions. Lord, we ask that you would help us in our walk with you that we may reflect your glory, your love, your goodness, your grace, your mercy to a broken, fallen, hurt world around us. That the way we live our lives and the way we love others would be a beacon of light. Drawing people to you to the foot of the cross where they themselves can experience that love and that mercy for themselves. We ask Lord that you would keep us all safe until same time next week, Lord, when we're able to come together and and explore another topic within it, what we have in mind for us, but we trust Lord that it will be another good one.
All this we ask in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen.
Thank you. Hey, ladies. Thank you so much. Everybody on the play by the And, Sharon, thank you so much for your